Why Hotmail is the best

[Adagio]

I know this might not go down too well but i think Hotmail is by far the best free E-mail provider of the Big Three!

I say this subject to the following two conditions:
1) The 250mb Upgrade
2) CONTINUED access via httpmail - (this is the protocol which allows mail clients such as Outlook and Outlook express to access hotmail).

The reasons for hotmail being better than any other of the big three (and possibly, any other free provider) are:

1) No Backup on Gmail

For Gmail web interface is the only way to send and receive mail and you can't back up your mail to HD. You might be ask why you would want to do this when you have 1gb of online storage. Well apart from the feelgood safety factor of having a copy of your e-mails stored on your own computer, there's also the fact that I may need access to past e-mails when I'm not online. I also find it's quicker to manage e-mail on my PC than to wait for page refreshes. Even more so if I'm managing/searching multiple accounts at once.


2) Problems with Yahoo and POP protocol

For Yahoo you can use both webmail and pop and SMTP access but pop access falls very short of Hotmail's httpmail protocol which allows you to copy mail between folders on the server as well as between your computer and the server, straight from your e-mail client. The only other protocol which comes even close to httpmail is IMAP and there is no free IMAP provider! (and fastmail's free IMAP account pales in comparison to what the big three are offering when it comes to SPAM protection and storage space+you can't send mail on fastmail free.).


3) Sending Mail: Lack of SMTP for Gmail/Taglines on Yahoo

Gmail requires you to log in to web interface in order to send mail. This takes longer to fire-up than a blank e-mail on a client such as Outlook Express. Attachments take longer to send with webmail as you have to upload them first. More precisely it's the waiting for them to upload which is a time waster...with an e-mail client the 'uploading' occurs after you press send so you're never actually waiting for the upload.
With yahoo you can either use webmail interface or SMTP access with a yahoo.co.uk account. When using webmail though you have same inconvenience as mentioned above for Gmail and yahoo's spellcheck doesn't even have an 'Add Word' facility. But what's really putting me off Yahoo is those bright orange taglines they place at the bottom of e-mails you send. The taglines are bearable if you only send mail to family or close friends, but they make any formal e-mail look rather tacky. I really don't understand why they still use them. It's not as if people don't know about yahoo or yahoo messenger! I'm not sure if Gmail does this too, but Hotmail certainly doesn't, which is another reason why i prefer hotmail.


So for example these are things you can do with hotmail which you can't with Yahoo or Gmail

1)Send mail through a an e-mail client (Outlook/Outlook Express/Thunderbird/Eudora) and have the e-mail saved on the server. This means you will see the sent e-mail in your sent items not only on your PC but also in webmail, from anywhere in the world.
2) Copy mail from any account with pop/IMAP access to ANY folder in your hotmail account, using simple Drag and Drop in outlook express or any other e-mail client which supports it.
3) Create backups of e-mails in any folder to store on your HD, by copying e-mails to a local folder (drag-n-drop)
4) Restore any e-mails in a local folder to any folder in your hotmail account (again simple drag-n-drop)
5) Benefit from spam protection EVEN when you access your e-mail from an e-mail client. This can also be done with a lot of fiddling for yahoo accounts, but only on certain e-mail clients which allow advanced rules.
6) 2-way contact list synchronisation with MSN messenger and your address book in outlook express.

there are more but I can't think...I just hope they don't mess everything up by making httpmail access a premium $ervice.

Adagio

[Killer]

Originally posted by Adagio
I say this subject to the following two conditions:
1) The 250mb Upgrade
2) CONTINUED access via httpmail - (this is the protocol which allows mail clients such as Outlook and Outlook express to access hotmail).

Adagio

Other than news article and forums about the upgrade, I haven't recieve any updates from hotmail about any upgrade. Until they upgrade their storage, they are still one of the worst.

[IsaacH]

Adagio,

A few things:

First, the new, upgraded Hotmail isn't available yet. I prefer to wait and see whether there will be any trade-offs for the new storage (such as httpmail only for paying users) before evaluating it.

Second, httpmail might be equivalent to IMAP in functionality, but it has the serious drawback of being a proprietary protocol. If you use it, you are pretty much tied to Microsoft email clients, and to Microsoft Windows. Outlook isn't free and Outlook Express is no longer being developed.

Third, Hotmail does have taglines, if you send from the webmail interface that is. It's true that it doesn't when you send from Outlook/Outlook Express.

[LrdVader]

Originally posted by IsaacH
Second, httpmail might be equivalent to IMAP in functionality, but it has the serious drawback of being a proprietary protocol. If you use it, you are pretty much tied to Microsoft email clients, and to Microsoft Windows. Outlook isn't free and Outlook Express is no longer being developed.

That, to me, makes httpmail worthless. And if I'm going to be stuck using webmail, I find Yahoo's much more bearable.

If Hotmail supported IMAP, I'd agree with you that it would blow away all the other free providers. As it stands now, it falls flat on its face for those of us who don't use MS clients.

[rob_au]

Originally posted by IsaacH
Second, httpmail might be equivalent to IMAP in functionality, but it has the serious drawback of being a proprietary protocol. If you use it, you are pretty much tied to Microsoft email clients, and to Microsoft Windows. Outlook isn't free and Outlook Express is no longer being developed.

Access to Hotmail via the HTTPmail (WebDAV) protocol is also available on Macintosh systems through the use of Microsoft Entourage. Additionally, there are a number of open-source packages which provide POP3 and SMTP access to Hotmail (thereby allowing any manner of mail client to be used) through the employ the HTTPmail protocol - See Hotwayd on Sourceforge, http://hotwayd.sourceforge.net.

[bitequator]

If we're talking about the future post-upgrade state of things, to be fair you could also mention that the free Hotmail will have full server antivirus while the free Yahoo relies on manual webmail cleaning, and Gmail purportedly doesn't offer a real antivirus.

As to taglines, both Yahoo and Hotmail don't add a tagline on mail sent via local client (any POP3 client for Yahoo, and HTTPmail clients for Hotmail). Likewise both Yahoo and Hotmail include a tagline when sending via webmail as was mentioned. In my limited tests, the taglines look very similar from both services (single-row text taglines, neither seems very gaudy).

Anyways I agree for Outlook/OE users MSN Hotmail seems attractive, especially with the MSN Outlook Connector for select PIM synchronization (supposedly to be enhanced later for a low-end groupware paid offering replacing Exchange).

I use Outlook & OE, but admittedly I've always stayed away from MSN/Hotmail and prefer Yahoo mostly (Yahoo Mail, Messenger, etc). I just like the Yahoo interface much better for some reason.


P.S. As you mentioned using other clients with Hotmail I assume you're referring to 3rd-party Hotmail/POP3 conversion utilities? I hear some of them are not stable/reliable? Also with POP3 you'd then lose the benefit of the (IMAP-like) native HTTPMail access paradigm no? Hotwayd mentioned by rob_au is supposedly working on an IMAP gateway daemon but it's not done yet...

[SusanUKF]

My msn hotmail account is Spam Haven!! I am still sitting at 2MB's and I absolutely hate the interface, the lost mails, the spam, the spam, the interface, the spam....the spam....

(did I mention the spam??)

Susan.

[rob_au]

Originally posted by bitequator
P.S. As you mentioned using other clients with Hotmail I assume you're referring to 3rd-party Hotmail/POP3 conversion utilities? I hear some of them are not stable/reliable? Also with POP3 you'd then lose the benefit of the (IMAP-like) native HTTPMail access paradigm no? Hotwayd mentioned by rob_au is supposedly working on an IMAP gateway daemon but it's not done yet...

The employ of POP3 for access to Hotmail does negate the benefit of native HTTPmail access. However the implementation of POP3 as an access protocol is far easier than that for IMAP and as a result I would note that the Hotwayd application is very stable (in fact, I believe that the IMAP protocol is actually far more flexible than the HTTPmail protocol and as such, this may explain the slowed efforts in providing an IMAP interface to Hotmail message stores) - Indeed, this application (Hotwayd) serves as a base for the code which provides checking of external mail accounts from Hotmail for Bluebottle and successfully polls many hundreds of Hotmail accounts every 15 minutes without issue.

[BLuRReD]

do u really think hotmail is the best free email service ?! , i wonder how many free email services that u tested to come to this conclusion?

[bitequator]

Originally posted by rob_au
The employ of POP3 for access to Hotmail does negate the benefit of native HTTPmail access.

Thanks for the info rob_au. To guess at what you mean, I assume it's like using separate POP operations on each Hotmail server folder...

Sorry I should probably just use it for first-hand experience...

[rob_au]

Originally posted by bitequator
Thanks for the info rob_au. To guess at what you mean, I assume it's like using separate POP operations on each Hotmail server folder...

Moreover, the POP3 interface provided by Hotwayd permits access to the single folder, the Inbox.

[Spin]

I dont know, right now I think Yahoo is my favorite email followed by Gmail, but I dont know, maybe after hotmails upgrade they will be my favorite.

--
Spin

[Killer]

If hotmail do upgrade their storage it would be a plus point for them. I do like their unlimied domain blocks.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by BLuRReD
do u really think hotmail is the best free email service ?! , i wonder how many free email services that u tested to come to this conclusion?

I have tried quite a few actually, but i don't expect you to necessarily agree with my conclusions. The fact is we all place different weight in different features...susan really values the fact that she gets less spam in her yahoo account, maybe you value the web interface, but personally I really value the option to back up, search and manage my e-mails preferably via an e-mail client such as outlook express and since there are no free IMAP providers Hotmail is by far the best in this regard.

I didn't know that hotmail adds taglines when you send e-mail from the web interface so thanks for that info IsaacH...i guess it show how little i use webmail when i can avoid it....which brings me back to another gripe I have with Yahoo...

Although Yahoo.co.uk does allow access to SMTP server in theory I am having trouble connecting to it because, with the recent worms and viruses, many routers/servers have blocked all port 25 traffic. I have been hit by this and can no longer send e-mail via port 25 to Yahoo or any other e-mail provider outside my immediate domain. I am currently in the process of identifying where the SMTP requests are being blocked. That said, I can still send e-mail perfectly using my Hotmail account because it is not affected by this.

"HTTPMail is based on WebDAV, and is a way to access remote resources using simple HTTP requests (which means that you can also access your HTTPMail server behind a proxy server!)."

This is another reason why Hotmail is superior to Yahoo's pop/SMTP access. I think yahoo should do like many other providers are and open a second port for the SMTP server. Unfortunately I don't have the time to crusade for such a radical change in company policy...and i doubt they'd listen to me.

rob_au: thanks for your introduction to Hotwayd. As you said, pop access via this app would unfortunately render many of httpmail's features useless but I'm really looking forward for that IMAP implementation since I will no longer be dependent on Outlook Express...which is doing a great job for now, but lack of development may make it obsolete in the future.

[kander]

There ARE free IMAP providers, just FYI. *cough* Fastmail *cough*

--K