Why Hotmail is the best
 

I know this might not go down too well :p but i think Hotmail is by far the best free E-mail provider of the Big Three! :eek:

I say this subject to the following two conditions:
1) The 250mb Upgrade
2) CONTINUED access via httpmail - (this is the protocol which allows mail clients such as Outlook and Outlook express to access hotmail).

The reasons for hotmail being better than any other of the big three (and possibly, any other free provider) are:

1) No Backup on Gmail

For Gmail web interface is the only way to send and receive mail and you can't back up your mail to HD. You might be ask why you would want to do this when you have 1gb of online storage. Well apart from the feelgood safety factor of having a copy of your e-mails stored on your own computer, there's also the fact that I may need access to past e-mails when I'm not online. I also find it's quicker to manage e-mail on my PC than to wait for page refreshes. Even more so if I'm managing/searching multiple accounts at once.


2) Problems with Yahoo and POP protocol

For Yahoo you can use both webmail and pop and SMTP access but pop access falls very short of Hotmail's httpmail protocol which allows you to copy mail between folders on the server as well as between your computer and the server, straight from your e-mail client. The only other protocol which comes even close to httpmail is IMAP and there is no free IMAP provider! (and fastmail's free IMAP account pales in comparison to what the big three are offering when it comes to SPAM protection and storage space+you can't send mail on fastmail free.).


3) Sending Mail: Lack of SMTP for Gmail/Taglines on Yahoo

Gmail requires you to log in to web interface in order to send mail. This takes longer to fire-up than a blank e-mail on a client such as Outlook Express. Attachments take longer to send with webmail as you have to upload them first. More precisely it's the waiting for them to upload which is a time waster...with an e-mail client the 'uploading' occurs after you press send so you're never actually waiting for the upload.
With yahoo you can either use webmail interface or SMTP access with a yahoo.co.uk account. When using webmail though you have same inconvenience as mentioned above for Gmail and yahoo's spellcheck doesn't even have an 'Add Word' facility. But what's really putting me off Yahoo is those bright orange taglines they place at the bottom of e-mails you send. The taglines are bearable if you only send mail to family or close friends, but they make any formal e-mail look rather tacky. I really don't understand why they still use them. It's not as if people don't know about yahoo or yahoo messenger! I'm not sure if Gmail does this too, but Hotmail certainly doesn't, which is another reason why i prefer hotmail.


So for example these are things you can do with hotmail which you can't with Yahoo or Gmail

1)Send mail through a an e-mail client (Outlook/Outlook Express/Thunderbird/Eudora) and have the e-mail saved on the server. This means you will see the sent e-mail in your sent items not only on your PC but also in webmail, from anywhere in the world.
2) Copy mail from any account with pop/IMAP access to ANY folder in your hotmail account, using simple Drag and Drop in outlook express or any other e-mail client which supports it.
3) Create backups of e-mails in any folder to store on your HD, by copying e-mails to a local folder (drag-n-drop)
4) Restore any e-mails in a local folder to any folder in your hotmail account (again simple drag-n-drop)
5) Benefit from spam protection EVEN when you access your e-mail from an e-mail client. This can also be done with a lot of fiddling for yahoo accounts, but only on certain e-mail clients which allow advanced rules.
6) 2-way contact list synchronisation with MSN messenger and your address book in outlook express.

there are more but I can't think...I just hope they don't mess everything up by making httpmail access a premium $ervice.

Adagio :cool:

Re: Why Hotmail is the best
 

Other than news article and forums about the upgrade, I haven't recieve any updates from hotmail about any upgrade. Until they upgrade their storage, they are still one of the worst.

Adagio,

A few things:

First, the new, upgraded Hotmail isn't available yet. I prefer to wait and see whether there will be any trade-offs for the new storage (such as httpmail only for paying users) before evaluating it.

Second, httpmail might be equivalent to IMAP in functionality, but it has the serious drawback of being a proprietary protocol. If you use it, you are pretty much tied to Microsoft email clients, and to Microsoft Windows. Outlook isn't free and Outlook Express is no longer being developed.

Third, Hotmail does have taglines, if you send from the webmail interface that is. It's true that it doesn't when you send from Outlook/Outlook Express.

That, to me, makes httpmail worthless. And if I'm going to be stuck using webmail, I find Yahoo's much more bearable.

If Hotmail supported IMAP, I'd agree with you that it would blow away all the other free providers. As it stands now, it falls flat on its face for those of us who don't use MS clients.

Access to Hotmail via the HTTPmail (WebDAV) protocol is also available on Macintosh systems through the use of Microsoft Entourage. Additionally, there are a number of open-source packages which provide POP3 and SMTP access to Hotmail (thereby allowing any manner of mail client to be used) through the employ the HTTPmail protocol - See Hotwayd on Sourceforge, http://hotwayd.sourceforge.net.

If we're talking about the future post-upgrade state of things, to be fair you could also mention that the free Hotmail will have full server antivirus while the free Yahoo relies on manual webmail cleaning, and Gmail purportedly doesn't offer a real antivirus.

As to taglines, both Yahoo and Hotmail don't add a tagline on mail sent via local client (any POP3 client for Yahoo, and HTTPmail clients for Hotmail). Likewise both Yahoo and Hotmail include a tagline when sending via webmail as was mentioned. In my limited tests, the taglines look very similar from both services (single-row text taglines, neither seems very gaudy).

Anyways I agree for Outlook/OE users MSN Hotmail seems attractive, especially with the MSN Outlook Connector for select PIM synchronization (supposedly to be enhanced later for a low-end groupware paid offering replacing Exchange).

I use Outlook & OE, but admittedly I've always stayed away from MSN/Hotmail and prefer Yahoo mostly (Yahoo Mail, Messenger, etc). I just like the Yahoo interface much better for some reason.


P.S. As you mentioned using other clients with Hotmail I assume you're referring to 3rd-party Hotmail/POP3 conversion utilities? I hear some of them are not stable/reliable? Also with POP3 you'd then lose the benefit of the (IMAP-like) native HTTPMail access paradigm no? Hotwayd mentioned by rob_au is supposedly working on an IMAP gateway daemon but it's not done yet...

My msn hotmail account is Spam Haven!! I am still sitting at 2MB's and I absolutely hate the interface, the lost mails, the spam, the spam, the interface, the spam....the spam....

(did I mention the spam??)

:D :rolleyes: :p ;) Susan.

The employ of POP3 for access to Hotmail does negate the benefit of native HTTPmail access. However the implementation of POP3 as an access protocol is far easier than that for IMAP and as a result I would note that the Hotwayd application is very stable (in fact, I believe that the IMAP protocol is actually far more flexible than the HTTPmail protocol and as such, this may explain the slowed efforts in providing an IMAP interface to Hotmail message stores) - Indeed, this application (Hotwayd) serves as a base for the code which provides checking of external mail accounts from Hotmail for Bluebottle and successfully polls many hundreds of Hotmail accounts every 15 minutes without issue.

do u really think hotmail is the best free email service ?! :eek: , i wonder how many free email services that u tested to come to this conclusion? :p

Thanks for the info rob_au. To guess at what you mean, I assume it's like using separate POP operations on each Hotmail server folder...

Sorry I should probably just use it for first-hand experience...

Moreover, the POP3 interface provided by Hotwayd permits access to the single folder, the Inbox.

I dont know, right now I think Yahoo is my favorite email followed by Gmail, but I dont know, maybe after hotmails upgrade they will be my favorite.

--
Spin

If hotmail do upgrade their storage it would be a plus point for them. I do like their unlimied domain blocks.

I have tried quite a few actually, but i don't expect you to necessarily agree with my conclusions. The fact is we all place different weight in different features...susan really values the fact that she gets less spam in her yahoo account, maybe you value the web interface, but personally I really value the option to back up, search and manage my e-mails preferably via an e-mail client such as outlook express and since there are no free IMAP providers Hotmail is by far the best in this regard.

I didn't know that hotmail adds taglines when you send e-mail from the web interface so thanks for that info IsaacH...i guess it show how little i use webmail when i can avoid it....which brings me back to another gripe I have with Yahoo...

Although Yahoo.co.uk does allow access to SMTP server in theory I am having trouble connecting to it because, with the recent worms and viruses, many routers/servers have blocked all port 25 traffic. I have been hit by this and can no longer send e-mail via port 25 to Yahoo or any other e-mail provider outside my immediate domain. I am currently in the process of identifying where the SMTP requests are being blocked. That said, I can still send e-mail perfectly using my Hotmail account because it is not affected by this.

"HTTPMail is based on WebDAV, and is a way to access remote resources using simple HTTP requests (which means that you can also access your HTTPMail server behind a proxy server!)."

This is another reason why Hotmail is superior to Yahoo's pop/SMTP access. I think yahoo should do like many other providers are and open a second port for the SMTP server. Unfortunately I don't have the time to crusade for such a radical change in company policy...and i doubt they'd listen to me.

rob_au: thanks for your introduction to Hotwayd. As you said, pop access via this app would unfortunately render many of httpmail's features useless but I'm really looking forward for that IMAP implementation since I will no longer be dependent on Outlook Express...which is doing a great job for now, but lack of development may make it obsolete in the future.

There ARE free IMAP providers, just FYI. *cough* Fastmail *cough*

--K

I logged into Hotmail this morning and found some upgrade news on the left hand side of my screen. It says that the upgrade to 250 megabytes is slated for fall, as is the upgrade of attachment limit to 10 megs, but that the "virus cleaning of incoming email" is slated for this summer. I guess they ran into some problems with increasing everyone's quota over 100x so quickly.

Kander, i addressed fastmail in my Title post

10mb storage limit
40mb bandwitdh
No SMTP server access (!!)
no spam filtering (!!)
limits on hourly transfers
taglines

Although i like fastmail, it's free account can't compete with the big three, but then again, i'm not sure that it's trying to because if it did offer free SMTP, 100mb bandwidth, spam filters etc on free accounts it would probably go bust in a week.

*sigh* thats a dissapointment. Did they give any details on whether their going to charge for httpmail?

Actually I thought he was saying the opposite of that :)

Anyways since I haven't used Hotmail/HTTPMail much, I admit I didn't know it also also replaces SMTP for sending emails. But I agree with others that proprietary = not good. AOL for instance is enabling real IMAP access...

P.S. Based on WebDAV, anyone know if it's possible to access the Hotmail storage space by mapping to it via a WebDAV file application? Heh

EDIT: Killer, summer is June - August. Fall is September - November.

When excatly is Fall and Summer?

The official date's for North America are:

Summer: June 21

Fall: September 21

Winter: December 21

Spring: March 21

:D Susan.

And several more here:
http://www.emailaddresses.com/email_imap.htm

When I saw this thread, I thought the title was sarcastic/ironic. :p ;)

Where did you get that idea?!?!  There are plenty of free IMAP providers...

Get yourself a fastmail.fm Member account and use port 21 (which is unlikely to have been blocked) as your SMTP port — that's what I do, and it hasn't failed me yet...

One thing you didn't mention is Hotmail's extremely nasty habit of shutting down an account, without investigation or chance of recovery, as soon as they receive any complaint — no matter how blatantly false and maliicious.  To my mind, this makes Hotmail totally worthless as a serious email account, no matter how many plus points it has...

HttpMailProxy
 

Hi,

I've been looking over this thread, and I'd like it make it clear that it's possible to access Hotmail via IMAP using a program called Blue HttpMailProxy at http://sourceforge.net/projects/bhttpmail/

This program can be installed as an NT service and acts as a POP and IMAP proxy between your machine and mail services using the HTTPMail protocol, such as Hotmail and Lycos.

In other words, after installing this service you can access Hotmail via IMAP (or POP3)! I've tested version 0.4 with Thunderbird 0.6 and it worked perfectly. I noticed recently that version 0.5 adds smtp support.. so give it a shot people!

Regards
psyke83

Hi Robert,

There aren't plenty of free IMAP providers, but rather, a handful. As listed on the site which LrVader gave
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/jobs/faq_gp.html
Whatsmore some of that info is outdated. for example online.ie doesn't have smtp access anymore. Mail15 isn't even in business anymore!

I have already outlined common problems with IMAP providers
Ridiculously low
a) bandwidth limits
b) storage space
c) attachments limits
....when compared with the big three.
and
d)rarely a decent anti-spam.

e.g Fastmail member has only basic spam filtering, which i think is too basic these days.

The only exception to that is Bluebottle which i have just signed up to and seem pretty promising but e-mail response verification is not for everyone and i imaging it's only a matter of time before they start charging :(


I'm with you on the Crucible style shutting down of e-mail addresses which Hotmail is carrying out whenever anyone shouts "witch!"..errr.. "spammer!"

Oh and psyke83, thanks for the heads up on bhttpmail!

See my comments at http://www.emaildiscussions.com/...435#post176435 and http://www.emaildiscussions.com/...294#post219294
When reading this, my first thought was Monty Python and the Holy Grail rather than the Crucible :)

Summer is over. :( Still no upgrade on my account.

Summer is not over until September 21st Killer,......which is the first day of Fall!!

My account is still at 2MB's, some people have been upgraded to the 10 MB's already. Many people here do not seem to actively use their hotmail accounts for email anyway (but just for msn messenger), so for a lot of people here, I do not see the change being that big of a deal. It certainly makes very little difference to me personally.


:D Susan.

Oh I see, and my thinking was that summer was just one day only. :D

Every season lasts for 3 months Killer!!

:D Susan.

That depends on where you live. ;)

I was referring to the actual seasons technically being that long, LrdVader.... not the actual temperatures...

:D Susan.

Does anyone really think Hotmail is an acceptable choice after reading this? :

Hey, just thought you should know that your hotmail account could easily be shut down without warning, by accident or maliciously.
There are details in this article:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/06...il_gets_tough/
and the follow-up article:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/07...n_get_anybody/

I'm thinking of emailing the above message to my friends with hotmail.

The only thing about this that would be a real nuisance for me would be the fact that my msn messenger is with my msn.com account.

:( Susan.

Looks like the topic thread should read 'why hotmail is the best ... in doing the worst things.':D

That is really good jpg!! I like that one!!

:D Too true!! LOL! Susan.

You may also want to read through some of the links in the thread - http://www.emaildiscussions.com/...threadid=23009

Yes, as i said before, I am not impressed by the whole account closure thing. MSN employees need to get clued up on the fact that well, Spammers can easily fake a sent-from address, and that not all people accused of spamming actually are. It's quite shocking to find that they don't even have procedures in place when an account is reported as spamming. The only saving grace might be that once this is out and due to the substantial coverage it has received, MSN will actually do something to make the process fairer, like verifying the Header information first and also creating an appeal system.

There is one factor though which i think is worth mentioning. Compared to Yahoo and Gmail at least, I think hotmail is one of the easiest e-mail accounts to recover from if you face account closure, especially if you use it through an e-mail client like outlook express. Here's why
1) Your e-mail is already stored on you computer. All you have to do is open a new account on hotmail or anywhere else with an IMAP or httpmail server, and upload your mail to folders on that server. Alternatively you could just move your mail to a local folders which you can archive. You don't need access to your account for this because the e-mails are already stored on your computer.
2) Obviously you'll also want to inform your contacts of your change of address. Since your address book is stored in your mail client then it's still accessible so changing address is just a case of sending an e-mail to everyone in your address book. Even if you didn't have a contact list on your mail client it may be that you backed up your messenger contact list, and thats also can be used to restore your address book.

Even the best e-mail systems are prone to human error. Although I'm not condoning the shoddy procedures for handling spam reports at hotmail, the fact of the matter is that whoever leaves their mail and contact address on a server is always assuming a certain degree of risk. E-mail systems which run HttpMail or IMAP allow you to reduce the risk of loss by storing and managing copies of mail on your PC, and in my mind this is what puts free e-mail services like Hotmail and Bluebottle a cut above the rest.

I do like Hotmail, Iyet I don't think this is the best.
the discussion is interesting but hey, seriously...

how many threads and posts have I read about people losing data on Hotmail's servers?...even though one should not put any important infos in a free Hotmail I still find any other webmail more reliable ...this only is enough to tell ma that Hotmail is not the best along with the site's slow graphics...

Not even close to best with its small storage. :(