Lost in space?

Queenie · 3 Dec 2005, 05:32 PM

Hmm...where do all the 0's and 1's disappear to when you delete a file?

Is there a binary heaven out there in cyberspace somewhere for all things deleted?

Some say nowhere, because they don't really exist in the physical world. But if they're not there, if they aren't real, what am I doing spending hours a day in front of my monitor? Maybe the time I spend (or waste) is only 'virtually real'?

Ha ha ha.....Maybe life really IS an illusion....

Adrian Bell · 3 Dec 2005, 08:10 PM

They don't disappear, they are just not indexed any more. They are still there on the disk until they are written over with new ones.

Queenie · 3 Dec 2005, 08:45 PM

I knew that....

I was just in a giddy, kind of teasing mood this lovely morning and thought I'd kind of break the seriousness that's often in the other forums. You see, some of my mail has been 'disappearing' and the "annoyedness" of this just needed an antidote....

So no worries mate! I'm no computer-blonde, I just felt like joking around a bit and this seemed the right place to do so...

So have a really nice day and thanks for your input just the same!

(PS) I have another "philosophical" question:

If a man stands in the middle of a forest and yells and there is no woman around to hear him, is he still wrong?

Ha ha ha...I guess that was a rhetorical question, because we all know the answer...is "yes!"

Merry Xmas!!!

The Storm · 4 Dec 2005, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Queenie

If a man stands in the middle of a forest and yells and there is no woman around to hear him, is he still wrong?

Ha ha ha...I guess that was a rhetorical question, because we all know the answer...is "yes!"

And women are so perfect?!?

OUCH! Why did all the ladies on the forum just slap me, that kinda hurt

The Storm · 4 Dec 2005, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Queenie
Maybe the time I spend (or waste) is only 'virtually real'?

Ha ha ha.....Maybe life really IS an illusion....

Isn't that a juxtaposition? Life is real AND an illusion! Since reality is what you percieve, and you can percieve in countless ways, therefore reality can have multilateral meaning and interpretations, therefore this proves lifes a reality and an illusion! Am I really 22, I'm sounding awefully like someone in their 50's? Or is age just an illusion to?

Queenie · 4 Dec 2005, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Storm
And women are so perfect?!?

Ha! Another rhetorical question to which we all know the answer!! Ha ha ha...

Quote:

Originally posted by The Storm
OUCH! Why did all the ladies on the forum just slap me, that kinda hurt

Oh, you poor thing... You didn't get slapped Storm... that's only your PERCEPTION!

Quote:

Originally posted by The Storm
Or is age just an illusion to?

Hmm...age is proportional to time which again is relative to how fast you're travelling through the time/space continuum, so therfore...... Oh, chuck it! Don't need Einstein's help here! Being of the "right" sex, I KNOW the answer is YES!! Age IS totally an illusion!!

Ha ha ha...Crikey, I'm having fun!

The Storm · 5 Dec 2005, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Queenie
Ha! Another rhetorical question to which we all know the answer!! Ha ha ha...

Oh, you poor thing... You didn't get slapped Storm... that's only your PERCEPTION!

Hmm...age is proportional to time which again is relative to how fast you're travelling through the time/space continuum, so therfore...... Oh, chuck it! Don't need Einstein's help here! Being of the "right" sex, I KNOW the answer is YES!! Age IS totally an illusion!!

Ha ha ha...Crikey, I'm having fun!

robert@fm · 6 Dec 2005, 03:29 AM

Major philosophical questions answered!

Q. What is the meaning of life?

A. 42.

Q. Why does anyone do anything?

A. I don't know, I was really drunk at the time.

(ask a Pink Floyd fan if you don't get that one)

More to come sometime... maybe.

Bamb0 · 17 Apr 2026, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Adrian Bell
They don't disappear, they are just not indexed any more. They are still there on the disk until they are written over with new ones.

I have a nice program that replaces all deleted clusters with 0s so nothing is there anymore..

Its scary sometimes thinking everything you do is taking up your disk space all the time!

JeremyNicoll · 17 Apr 2026, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamb0

I have a nice program that replaces all deleted clusters with 0s so nothing is there anymore..

Not necessarily; the firmware on hard disks will - if it thinks some part of the disk has become unreliable - move data elsewhere & mark the original parts so they are not used again.

So your wonder program might write 0s into the new locations but not touch (as it cannot reach them) the old ones.

I wouldn't like to bet that someone (eg the manufacturer) couldn't read more of the data than you think. But I'd not expect a passing thief who nicks your PC & sells it on to be able to nor whoever ends up with the machine to be able to.

It's worse with SSDs; they move data off 'worn' parts of the memory chips frequently.

That aside... some clusters which once contained your deleted data will (since then) have been reused ... but not necessarily entirely. Suppose the last two bytes of a new file get written into the start of one of those clusters? How sure are you that the following bytes in that cluster will be cleared by the firmware? Your wonder program might not clear these bytes.

In the past I've disassembled old hard disks then bent & scratched the platters & cut the PCBs & head assemblies into bits. I've thrown the pieces away (into separate bins etc some weeks apart).

I'm not sure how completely to kill an SSD.

Bamb0 · 17 Apr 2026, 03:19 PM

I wonder if putting a magnet on it for awhile would erase all data??

JeremyNicoll · 18 Apr 2026, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamb0

I wonder if putting a magnet on it for awhile would erase all data??

It's only hard disks ("spinning rust") that do stuff magnetically so I wouldn't think so.

The introductory text here is interesting:

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/How+to+...+sticks/142798

Google found me something that said the US DOD suggest use of a smelter (to melt the components) & apparrently there are companies who make shredders (much tougher than those used in homes to shred paper). Possibly a welding torch would work (on the chips & PCB) but there must be a risk of noxious fumes.

SideshowBob · 22 Apr 2026, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyNicoll

Not necessarily; the firmware on hard disks will - if it thinks some part of the disk has become unreliable - move data elsewhere & mark the original parts so they are not used again.

Personally, I've only ever seen one relocated sector in my life, or rather since SMART has been supported. It's considered to be a serious pre-fail indicator, so I replaced it.

JeremyNicoll · 22 Apr 2026, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SideshowBob

Personally, I've only ever seen one relocated sector in my life, or rather since SMART has been supported. It's considered to be a serious pre-fail indicator, so I replaced it.

What did you do with the old disk?

3 Dec 2005, 05:32 PM	#1
Queenie Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4	Lost in space? Hmm...where do all the 0's and 1's disappear to when you delete a file? Is there a binary heaven out there in cyberspace somewhere for all things deleted? Some say nowhere, because they don't really exist in the physical world. But if they're not there, if they aren't real, what am I doing spending hours a day in front of my monitor? Maybe the time I spend (or waste) is only 'virtually real'? Ha ha ha.....Maybe life really IS an illusion....

3 Dec 2005, 08:10 PM	#2
Adrian Bell Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Darlington, UK Posts: 938	They don't disappear, they are just not indexed any more. They are still there on the disk until they are written over with new ones.

3 Dec 2005, 08:45 PM	#3
Queenie Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4	I knew that.... I was just in a giddy, kind of teasing mood this lovely morning and thought I'd kind of break the seriousness that's often in the other forums. You see, some of my mail has been 'disappearing' and the "annoyedness" of this just needed an antidote.... So no worries mate! I'm no computer-blonde, I just felt like joking around a bit and this seemed the right place to do so... So have a really nice day and thanks for your input just the same! (PS) I have another "philosophical" question: If a man stands in the middle of a forest and yells and there is no woman around to hear him, is he still wrong? Ha ha ha...I guess that was a rhetorical question, because we all know the answer...is "yes!" Merry Xmas!!!

6 Dec 2005, 03:29 AM	#8
robert@fm The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 4,681	Major philosophical questions answered! Q. What is the meaning of life? A. 42. Q. Why does anyone do anything? A. I don't know, I was really drunk at the time. (ask a Pink Floyd fan if you don't get that one) More to come sometime... maybe.

17 Apr 2026, 03:19 PM	#11
Bamb0 The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 2,376	I wonder if putting a magnet on it for awhile would erase all data??